Ekwe Ethuro: This is where we differ with Chief Justice Willy Mutunga

Senate Speaker Ekwe Ethuro.

QUESTION: What exactly is your beef with the Judiciary?

ANSWER: Simple. The Judiciary is interfering with our activities and preventing us from doing our work. When Parliament is executing a particular matter, no other State organ should interfere. The much the courts can do is wait for us to conclude and then challenge the legality or constitutionality of the same. Similarly, when a matter is before the courts, we are prohibited from debating it. This is our beef with the Judiciary.

Any history with the Judiciary on this?

There are many instances, including recent rulings by certain judges. But the most common one, and which has greatly hampered the oversight role of the Senate, is stopping the Senate from summoning governors. Many will also remember the ping-pong around the impeachment of Embu County Governor (Martin) Wambora. After the courts overturned the process by the Senate, the Embu County Assembly restarted the process concluding the same on May 13, this year. But the courts have again injuncted Parliament on this one, and Wambura remains firmly in office. Such processes are portraying us as a meaningless entity.

What are the consequences of such actions?

We are simply bottling up pressure and at this rate when the pressure finds way, it will blow up with the bottle top. This is the kind of political heat that is building, where, for instance, some, like the Chairman of the Council of Governors Isaac Ruto, are being embarrassed publicly by (National Assembly) Majority Leader Aden Duale over accountability issues. There is growing frustration among legislators because the Judiciary is shielding the governors, and I will not be surprised if more governors are targeted amid this political heat.

Your comment on the latest saga in Makueni County, where Governor Kivutha Kibwana has a stand-off with his MCAs?

We have many running challenges not only in Makueni but also Isiolo among other counties. The House Committee on Devolution is already handling the Makueni case. We hope the Judiciary can allow us room to fix this matter. We need to streamline leadership wrangles in these counties to enable the common mwananchi to enjoy continued service delivery.

But the Judiciary, too, has a responsibility to intervene where Parliament appears to be acting contrary to the law?

We are not contesting the Judiciary’s role of intervention, including interpreting the Constitution. We are opposed to its pre-emptive actions that frustrate our oversight role. We are protesting at such moves that are geared at making us irrelevant.

Talking about irrelevancy, a host of Kenyans do not understand clearly the role of the Senate, and have even suggested that it should be scrapped altogether to reduce the government’s wage bill. Comment.

I have heard such sentiments, surprisingly, even from very senior and knowledgeable Kenyans, including politicians. They are highly misplaced. Just because we are new, does not mean we are irrelevant. This whole idea is borne out of the old economic philosophy of “Last In, First Out”. However, under the new dispensation, we have a critical role to play in enhancing devolution and protecting county governments. If the argument is about reducing the wage bill, then the target should be elsewhere (National Assembly) and not the Senate, which has the least members, who nonetheless represent all Kenyans at county government level.

Does the Senate also support the governors’ led “Pesa Mashinani” referendum initiative, which they argue will speed up development in counties?

We have senators from both sides of the political divide, and who are bound to take different positions on this matter, and I will not therefore speak on their behalf.

However, the idea of increasing funding at county levels is agreeable to all. The only question remains – which is the best avenue of achieving this? But even if the answer was through referendum, the governors themselves are bound to defeat their very own campaign. By declining to be audited, most people may not be enthusiastic to allocate them more funds to manage.

Separately, are you contented with the composition of the Senate, regarded by some as “Nyumba ya Wazee”?

This is a point of strength and not weakness of the Senate. This is the only house with most experienced politicians, and which prides of top legal minds in the country – including two senior counsels, Amos Wako and James Orengo, with the third Mutula Kilonzo, having passed on. Along with many others, with a long experience of serving in government as Cabinet ministers, and young budding politicians, gives the Senate a most sober balance. And don’t forget, the Senate has some of the youngest parliamentarians, including a 29-year-old senator from Rift Valley.

Noting they represent a larger geographical constituency, some senators claim they ought to earn more than National Assembly counterparts. Comment.

It follows naturally that an elected Senator has a larger constituency. This is the same principle that guides the seniority of a President over all other elected leaders, because his constituency is the entire country. Alternatively, would it make sense if Kenyans should pay MCAs (Members of County Assemblies), MPs, senators, governors and the President the same pay package? But because, it is our (Senate) constitutional duty to remain reasonable, we are pushing for changes peacefully and amicably.

Finally, what is your comment on the current high activity among legislators where a host of them are rushing to The Hague to show a sign solidarity with the President.

Luckily for the Senate, we have just taken another break. Either way, the prosecution team has repeatedly admitted that it lacks sufficient evidence to prosecute, particularly the President. The case against Deputy President is similarly weak.

Our prayers are that these two gentlemen should let off the hook so that they can concentrate on running the affairs of this country. In other words, the ICC issue is no longer a personal matter of Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto.

It is a matter that affects the entire country, and that is why I see nothing wrong in MPs thronging the Netherlands to express solidarity with the President.