Mount Kenya people will not allow Raila Odinga to rule - Shujaa Otiende

How much did you earn as salary when you joined Bunge at independence as Kenya’s first Education minister?

Our role those days was to champion wananchi issues in Parliament. Today, it’s a sorrowful situation, because leaders put their interests first. Parliament was not a place for corruption at the time. I wonder why the MPs are paid hefty salaries.

Why should they be paid for representing people? We were paid Sh30 as parliament attendance allowance. We even paid for our own transport from our homes to Parliament.

Did you have any benefits like armed bodyguards and chase cars?

No. I had my own bodyguards, workers and cooks. We were self-accounting during that time. To date, I have not been paid any benefits.

How come you and the likes of the late William ole Ntimama spoke better English than today’s politicians?

It is because we knew and understood why we were elected. Our core duty was to serve the electorate and we debated in parliament eloquently. How do you expect people who have never stepped in school to be good speakers? I graduated from Makerere as a teacher and that shaped my tenure as MP.

Tom Mboya, who had only Form Two education (but later studied at Ruskin College), was more intellectual than some politicians with master’s degrees today, right?

Tom Mboya, may his soul rest in peace, was a very bright man. I am yet to see any leader in Kenya who fits in his shoes. I knew him before he joined government.

He was an all-round politician. Today, people with no qualifications are being given mandates to handle dockets they don’t have a clue about. Those days, a minister could be in charge of more than two ministries and still perform.

You lead a simple life and are not rich. Do you regret not enriching yourself when you were a minister?

I don’t regret. I was and I am still an ordinary fellow. We were not politicians. I was a wananchi oriented leader. In fact, I represented elders, not young men.

Young men were still growing, they had not seen life. They had not seen a war. How many MPs today can attest they have witnessed a real war? These are the same people who carelessly fan tribal animosity and clamour for civil war.

How did the culture of political assassinations begin?

Some (politicians) were killed because they were fit to be presidents of Kenya. We lost brilliant sons who may have changed the course of this country.

Are there any traits that Raila inherited from Jaramogi? Do you see him ruling Kenya one day?

Jaramongi and I were classmates at Maseno. He is not only a Luo, but also has relations with the Mumia family in Mumias. I don’t see him becoming president. ‘Mt Kenya’ people have sworn that they will not allow Raila to rule.

There have been rumours that Nyerere wanted you to become president of Tanganyika...

Yes, it almost happened. At the time, I was serving as the chairman of the East Africa Council and Red Cross. I wielded great political influence because I interacted with Tanzanians a lot.

It endeared me to some political leaders who were agitating for internal self-rule. As a leader in East Africa, my star was shining brightly. I was destined for big things and this attracted Julius Nyerere’s attention and admiration.

Nyerere at the time was growing fatigued and was contemplating quitting politics to concentrate on teaching. As he weighed his options, he would slip into my residence at night to confide in me.

On two separate occasions during these night visits, he tried to persuade me to replace him upon vacating his position as president of Tanganyika African National Union party in my favour.

Not many Tanzanians knew that I was Kenyan, but when his plans leaked, word spread like wildfire that Nyerere was planning to hand power to a foreigner. Of course, Nyerere knew of my Kenyan roots, he was a leader who believed in Pan Africanism, so my background did not bother him.

In any case, he was willing to delay Tanzania’s independence to wait for Kenya’s. He envisaged East Africa as a single political entity with one flag.

Nyerere respected integrity. As I was considering how I would navigate around Nyerere’s proposal, there was resistance from his compatriots who feared Tanganyika would become a Kenyan colony. In addition, they were not sure if the British colonial powers in Kenya would give up the reins of power to a native African. That is how my transient dream of becoming Tanganyika president evaporated.

What were the most trying moments of the Kenyatta presidency?

Kenyatta was confronted by his community and told not to appoint other big tribes in his government, which included Luhya and Luo. He was advised to work with small communities like the Meru which didn’t have much influence. I didn’t like that statement. I believe a government should be inclusive of all communities in Kenya.

Is Luhya disunity a good or bad thing?

The disunity is a bad thing. Among the MPs, there is no unity. They don’t have a vision. If it’s there, it’s individual, and I don’t believe in individual things. Our leaders think they know everything and unless we change the current crop of leaders, Luhya unity will remain elusive.

Kenyans inherited a very efficient police and civil service from the British. How did it become run down?

People at the top at the moment are not mature. The only game they understand well is corruption. They cannot see the country as a whole. They are not true Africans at heart. Africans believe in clans and all tribes. Additionally, during British time, decisions were made by elders.

Nowadays, people wake up and say there are changes in various sectors without planning and consulting. Our fathers were very careful. They took people according to age groups to serve in various cadres in government.