Demos will not impair Kenya's image, Mutua says in interview

Foreign Affairs CS Alfred Mutua addresses the media on July 19, 2023. He argued that ongoing demos have not impaired Kenya’s image abroad. [Jonah Onyango, Standard]

Foreign Affairs Cabinet Secretary Alfred Mutua appears to have been overshadowed by his colleague in Trade and most certainly the president, but he does not see it that way.

When he was appointed almost a year ago many thought that the communication expert had found fertile ground for his linguistic intelligence to thrive.

However, his smooth-talking nature that was revealed while he served as Government Spokesman and later Governor of Machakos has been missing. The communication lecturer and filmmaker has looked coy, rarely coming out to shine as his predecessors in the Foreign Affairs docket did.

Even as questions emerge about the Foreign Department ceding its traditional role of being a link between foreign agencies and government departments, Mutua believes that is part of changes the new administration has put in place to cut down on bureaucracy.

In an interview with Persil Telewa, the CS also argued that ongoing demos have not impaired Kenya’s image abroad, and that the visit by Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi wasn’t controversial judged by Kenya’s interests in Iran’s arch-enemy the West. 

It is almost one year since you took office as the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs. How is everything?

Mutua: Every day is adjustable. I took office in October 2022, and I still have some time to go. At least more than half a year now. We’re getting into the rhythm of things

How has it been for you?

Mutua: It’s interesting. You know I came from being a governor to being a CS. The duties are quite different. I came to the national government that is full of bureaucracy. Kenya has one of the best public service workforce in the world. Very highly educated. Very sharp, but also with a sense of elitism. I want to do his (president’s) big projects, you know, the green, the airport, all these projects, the 10,000 kilometres and you find he is dealing with the disease. Nothing gets done.

So how do we change the system?

You know President William Ruto is not one to sit down and wait for results. He wants to be there to see the results being initiated. So as a result things get done.

How does this happen? Because you are used to being the governor and you have your own way of doing things and now you have to follow bureaucracy. How do you find it?

I think it’s two things. One, don’t get caught up with petty issues. You look at the big picture. If someone has petty issues of not understanding give them time. They will relax. Number two, always support your staff. Regardless of an employee’s rank when they go home, they’re the king or the queen. You’re dealing with human beings with families, respect them, support them and let them grow. It doesn’t always have to be about you.

How do you find the current government... the cost of living?

 The cost of living is a result of the problem that we have. Let me ask you one thing, so you have been misbehaving. You go drinking every night, okay? You go and take drugs, you actually don’t do anything. Then it gets to a point now that you come back, you’re being reformed, and they find that you’ve got liver cancer, and even your investments are low. The problems did not start now. High cost of living started five years ago. When President Mwai Kibaki became president, he found an economy that was sweating. What did he do? He started an economic recovery programme. That was put together by the late David Nalo and Prof Anyang’ Nyong’o. I was Government Spokesperson at the time and Ambassador Francis Muthaura was head of Public Service and we sat down and said, we want to steer the ship. William Ruto has also found an economy that is in shambles. Unga was Sh230 by the time of elections last year, it has come down to Sh170. Things are improving but it will take two to three years, to get back. You know why? Because Ruto has a plan. 

Are you feeling the cost of living?

We can tell that we’re in a trajectory where things will get better. And they (opposition) don’t want them to get better. They want to cause mayhem and make it look like things are not improving. But I want to tell them shame on you.

As Foreign Affairs CS don’t you think that is a bad image, you know, to the rest of the countries that look up to us. Countries that are, you know, happy to see us where we are right now?

Every single day I get letters in my office requesting two things, for the head of state, foreign minister or prime minister to come to Kenya or inviting myself or President Ruto to visit some country. Right now Kenya is on high demand. Why? Because we support democracy. We’ve taken a particular lead in the world because of the sentiments of President Ruto. And so when people see demonstrations in France, in Germany, the demonstrations actually go astray. The cost of living went up because of cutting of resources from Russia, Ukraine. People outside are experiencing the same problems,

But sir, those are quiet demonstrations

They are quiet demonstrations because they are civilised demonstrations. Our demonstrations are uncivilised. Because how can you destroy what you built with your own money? That is primitive? Because if you destroy what you have paid with your own money and you will have to repair with your money, which you don’t have, what type of game is that really? It is stupidity. It is improper, it is primitive. Don’t do that. There is even a conversation in the corridors where those people should even be considered persona non grata all over the world.

I think we cannot stop talking about that. And I can see just the amount of emotions. It is unacceptable.

When Raila Odinga issued a statement saying they were collecting signatures, that was a democratic move. But when you have people destroying the Nairobi Expressway, when you are destroying government buildings and vehicles. What do you call that? I don’t think I really understand because I have sat down with Raila Odinga. He is a man I really admire. I don’t think that he can stoop that low. I have got phone calls from very senior people in this world. People who talk to presidents and are concerned. They don’t believe that the man who is known as a man of democracy can actually do that.

Have you heard people ask whether it is safe to come to the country?

People are coming to Kenya in droves. Nobody has cancelled their tickets. Right now we are here with 50 ministers from 55 African countries, and their representatives are right here, in Kenya. They didn’t care about the demonstrations. We have come from an AU summit here in Kenya. This morning I had a meeting with one of the American secretaries. People are coming to Kenya. So these will have long-term effect or short-term effect with a few investors. 

People are now starting to see through the games (of demonstrations). We have a system of elections. We have a system of going to the Supreme Court, Kenya is seen as an example of democracy. 

You mentioned a little bit about the Middle East calling and wanting to come to Kenya. I’m surprised just the other day we had the Iranian representatives come to the country. And I hear that a state visit needs to take three days they just stayed for a day. So I mean, how was it and what was it about besides what was reported in the media?

The Iranians had planned to come to Kenya for a long time. They are on a very, very tight schedule. This was the first visit to Africa, by the Iranian president. He chose to come to Kenya as the first entry point. When he stepped down at JKIA, in his life, it was his first time stepping into the continent of Africa. And he started with Kenya, but they also had other programmes that were going on in their country that were delaying. There is no written rule that a state visit should be two or three days. We signed a deal to export livestock for meat to Iran. In fact, they are supposed to set up a training institute in Kenya.

 I thought where we are as a country we should be able to do that.

Our education system has been based on turning us into consumers and not producers. And that’s another discussion we have heard at the AU. For example, I saw you talk on your phone before the interview started. Do you know that all the raw materials used to make the phone come from Africa? So technical training will be one of our greatest achievements because we will move learners this educational theory to education that is practical for people to start producing. 

When the president makes different country visits. Does he go with you what happens? Who is in charge?

As the Minister for Foreign Affairs, we set up all these visits. But you know, one of the most sought after ministers in the world is the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We have all these obligatory meetings to attend on behalf of Kenya that can only be entered into by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Where the president travels we are with him. You find that I am not in some meeting because I’m in another session, there has to be division of labour.

So there’s a letter, I think you are aware, that made rounds late last year about every government agency dealing with foreign relations. How is that for you?

It is working well for me. What was happening was old school. What we want to do with this government is be able to get an MoU signed. Get things moving. Before when an ambassador wanted to meet a certain minister, they had to come to Foreign Affairs. It was all bureaucracy. It would take almost six months before a five-day meeting is held. But now we’ve cut all the bureaucracy and as a result we are now clearing MoUs faster.