Raila: We can still dialogue with Jubilee leadership, but referendum is inevitable

QUESTION: Okoa Kenya has began to collect one million signatures to force a referendum that will allow the Constitution to be amended through a people’s petition.  What is the progress?

RAILA: What we launched was a public consultation process. Issues already isolated by the Committee of Experts (CoE) such as devolution, land, inclusivity and electoral and institutional reforms are to be subjected to public debate followed by the drafting of the Referendum Bill by the CoE. Contrary to what has been speculated, the Opposition is not going to whip or expel members who decide not to support the referendum.

We are going to let them vote with their conscience. I have in the past criticised Jubilee for intimidating governors supporting the push for  a  referendum, and I cannot force those against our stand in CORD to quit the coalition as that will be a case of double standards.

Why haven’t the referendum issues or question been framed yet calls  for a referendum were first made several months ago?

 Its not correct to say we are taking too long. There are distinct stages to be followed in this process. We are at the stage of collecting signatures, and general proposals on the issues have also been made. We have moved to public participation and consultations on the Referendum Bill which is to be developed by the CoE. So we are very much on time.

Other issues need a bipartisan approach and that is why we have been asking for dialogue with Jubilee. Some of these issues include the number of the counties that we should have. Such are the areas we need to make comparisons with other African countries. For example, South Africa has nine counties, Nigeria has 36 while Mozambique has 10. There is also the question of whether MPs should be appointed ministers.

You have mentioned dialogue. On three occasions. And President Uhuru Kenyatta has  indicated that he is willing to hold talks with CORD. Has he been in touch with you over this and are you ready if a formal  offer for talks is made?

He has not reached out to us in the CORD over dialogue. There are issues that require a bi-partisan approach, and that is why we need dialogue.  If the government had agreed to dialogue, we would have addressed a number of issues which do not require a referendum.

The President only talks about dialogue out there but he never follows it up with concrete actions. He has not even answered the letter I wrote to him a while ago asking for dialogue. But even if we were to have dialogue at this stage, it cannot stop the referendum because some issues can only be addressed through such a vote.

There are those who feel there is no clear distinction between issues of governance issues and constitutional issues that can be determined by a vote. What are your comments?

 

The 13-point issues at our Saba-Saba rally such as unemployment, security and poverty were not referendum issues. They were issues we were to settle with government but they denied us a chance. There are issues which require a bi-partisan approach and there are also issues which, even if there is a consensus between CORD and Jubilee, can?not be amended by Parliament, and this means we have to go all the way to the referendum.

You are  reported to have met Council of Governors chairman   Isaac Ruto over the referendum. Are you planning a merger of Okoa Kenya and ‘Pesa Mashinani’ at some point?

The governors’ initiative is a one-item affair on devolution, which is similar to one of our issues. We are talking to them and if they agree with our other issues, there will be a convergence. Everyone appreciates the country cannot manage two referendums and I hope we will find  common ground for a single one to be cost-effective to the tax payer.

There seems to be less enthusiasm for the referendum within the Okoa Kenya camp and one of the CORD co-principals Moses Wetang’ula alluded to this at the Bomas meeting last month. What has contributed to this?

I think my friend was talking about the charged atmosphere around saba saba. But you know we cannot keep a country in a state of agitation because its not good for business. The referendum drive is a process and momentum will gather as we move on. People are silent but they still have anger boiling in them and they want change. The desire for that change remains very strong.

How important was your co-principal Kalonzo Musyoka’s trip to China that he missed the launch of Okoa Kenya’s public participation phase?

Our friend had a meeting in China which he notified us about in advance. Because the China meeting could not be postponed and our launch in Nairobi could not be postponed as well, we agreed that Wiper Party chairman, Kitui Senator David Musila, represents him (Kalonzo) at the launch, which he did. Its, therefore, an arrangement that was made well in advance. We were aware Kalonzo was to be away.

Your opponents in Jubilee have claimed that you and Kalonzo are pushing for this referendum to re-occupy political space and re-invent yourselves as politicians. What do you say?

Raila is not politically finished for him  to be revived or re-invented. You cannot say ‘Okoa Raila’ because Raila is still politically active with his supporters intact. The mere fact that you are not elected to a political position does not mean you are dead politically. I still have political supporters across board. Those spreading such talk are against the Constitution, having opposed it.

How many counties are you likely to have on your side to meet the mandatory 24-county constitutional threshold to go to the referendum?

Our focus is on the referendum. We are not restricting or limiting ourselves in the 24 counties we control. All governors support the referendum initiative, including those in Jubilee who have been intimidated. Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) are also supportive of the referendum. We therefore expect support from majority of the counties.

 

What’s your comment on the rising political tensions and violence?

There is no part of this country we can classify as a pure CORD or Jubilee zone because the Opposition has supporters in Jubilee strongholds and vice-versa. What we now see, like the misuse of firearms, is impunity and should be stopped. I want to distinguish between what happened in Migori County during the presidential tour from what is going on elsewhere. In Migori, it was not an act of intolerance against the President. The problem was the governor. Some say Raila never spoke about Migori but ODM Secretary General Anyang’ Nyong’o condemned the incident.